Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller

[Starkman]

Thanks, Lunk.

As it stands, the throttle isn't so much jerky as it is very sensitive and tight. For slow-turn maneuvering, I find it extemely difficult to give it juuuust a wee bit of gas to get the rpms up to about twice the idle and sustain it there. Now I don't know if that's a hardware issue (like adjusting a cable or something) or if Ivan's flash will address that.

As it stands, I'm very happy with the bike!

[lunkhead]

Do you mean tight as in hard to turn the throttle? Like it sticks a little? Add some free play or have it looked at. Could be dangerous. Too much free play is bad, too. Look thru the owners manual to get familiar with how things should be adjusted. We get repeat customers that burn up their clutches because they don't like free play.

[Starkman]

Oh, no, nothing like what you've mentioned. The throttle is smooth and clean to turn but tight, as in...well, tight. When I test drove a Harley before buying this, the throttle was more buttery, as easy from the start as in the middle, more easier to get the lower rpms right where I wanted them. With the Bolt, it's, like, if I give it just a bit of throttle while staying hand-relaxed, we're simply in it. I don't mean they rev up really high, but just that it's not a smooth transition without really holding the throttle tight and really working it. Again, it's not a sticky feel, just a sense of no in between. I can't slowly raise the rpms. It's like going from 1 to 3.3 instead of to 2 then 3, etc.

When doing slow maneuvering, like tight U-Turns, figure 8s, circles, what have you, you need to ride in the friction zone with the clutch and give it just enough rpms to be about twice idle speed, and to be able to play in that area. It's just hard to do with my Bolt. It just acts like "We're going now."

[lunkhead]

It sounds like the transition from the fuel cut to instantly adding fuel but I've had the flash for so long, I forgot what it felt like.

[Starkman]

That...could very well be it. If the flash fixes that, I'll kiss Ivan...no I won't, but he'll have my heart forever! Ha!

Yeah, that could very well be it.

[boltedblue]

I've had my ECU flashed by Ivan, and recently reflashed with the upgrade, but I still feel that jerky throttle feel when doing slow riding, like in parking lots and tight u-turns. I love the flash though, and would recommend it 10/10 times. But that is one of the drawbacks for the Bolt for me, the low rpm/low mph riding. Not sure if you play guitar or not, but it's like trying to use a 100w amp as a quiet practice amp. You have to find that sweet spot on the volume knob between 0 and 1, and while trying to find it you either hear nothing, or the amp wants to shred your eardrums lol. That's somewhat how the Bolt is, even with the Flash, but not as bad as it is without the Flash. Once you get out of the parking lot though it's so smooth across the gears. Been a joy to ride. Good luck with your decision.

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[Starkman]

Boltedblue,

You've described the problem perfectly! And yes, I played guitar, so I know exactly what you mean.

Nice!

[srinath]

My bolt is actually an SCR - and it doesn't do this at all. I don't know if there is some difference between scr mapping vs bolt, or something else at work. I am reluctant to get the flash because I have massive engine braking - that I'd almost deem excessive - but I like it and have got used to it. Its almost in single cyl territory.

Cool.
Srinath.

[DrM]

The Bolt generally has enough power at idle rpm to move the bike around slowly without any throttle nudging (at least mine is.)  All you have to do is to feather the clutch so it engages gently.  In fact, if you feather both the clutch and the throttle simultaneously, you have a lot of control at slow speeds.  I think there is a police officer motorcycle trainer on YouTube who discussed this issue.

[srinath]

Yea I agree, mine is definitely so, and IMHO it makes a ton more power down low than my virago 1100 did - that's a bit of a surprise to me.
Cool.
Srinath.

[boltedblue]

The Bolt generally has enough power at idle rpm to move the bike around slowly without any throttle nudging (at least mine is.)  All you have to do is to feather the clutch so it engages gently.  In fact, if you feather both the clutch and the throttle simultaneously, you have a lot of control at slow speeds.  I think there is a police officer motorcycle trainer on YouTube who discussed this issue.

Yea, feathering both the clutch and throttle is key at the lower speeds on the Bolt.

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[Sdaniels]

I'd be interested in seeing if you don't a specific issue with your bike, Starkman.  Only way to know that is to ride another Bolt.  Because the way you describe the throttling problem, almost like a light-switch effect isn't typical for most, at least I haven't read about it.  I did the quick throttle mod & that would have accentuated the effect you're describing & I've never had an issue with low speed throttle managing.  I don't think Ivan's flash will help here either.  That on/off transition was a minor problem but only when decelerating, not accelerating.

[bedheadjulian]

Hey Starkman,
I think most of the members here would agree with me in advising you to just get the reflash from Ivan and not bother with a fuel controller. There are many reasons for this but I won't get into them here... there have been tons and tons of discussion on the topic that you could find using the search function.
As for your own understanding of how your bike works, I made a series of posts about engines and fuel injection that you might find interesting (or not) a few years back. I was researching this for my own enlightenment and decided to share what I found out.  This is the first one...

https://www.yamahastarbolt.com/technical-discussion/bolt-101-the-basics/msg54341/#msg54341
 
You can find the next one by going to the search page and typing "Bolt 101 part 2"  in the search field and enter my name (bedheadjulian) in the by member section...

There are 7 parts in total ...
A few of the members here found these useful so I kept posting as I found out more and more.

As for my own experience with Ivan's flash, I found it greatly improved the overall handling, especially smoothing out the throttle response, and freed up some of the potential the engine has that was being suppressed by emissions regulation and fuel-efficiency related tuning ( which will burn very lean in order to avoid any hydrocarbon readings). And really for the difference in price between the two (getting a good fuel controller or a flash) you're getting much more for your money with the flash.
Hope this helps you decide. - J
 

[DrM]

Hey Starkman,
I think most of the members here would agree with me in advising you to just get the reflash from Ivan ... (snip) ...
Hope this helps you decide. - J
 

[/quote
I'll be making a poll to see if it is "most members" agree with you -- because I highly doubt it.  In any case I am with srinath in that I want that massive engine braking working for me, even if it is noisy, which you might lose with Ivan's flash.

[srinath]

Its not even making those weird backfires - which are not a problem I know - except maybe at very high speeds. However The FI seems flawless. I may have been super super blessed, My only other FI bike is an SV1000 - which was in the early days of motorcycles with FI and likely before they screwed with those for EPA. Also very clean and also good engine braking - but the slipper clutch in that thing isn't ideal IMHO.

Cool.
Srinath.