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Author Topic: serious problem....stripped seat...  (Read 1246 times)

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Offline srinath

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Re: serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2020, 11:30:56 am »
You can use a push in plug they use on automotive trim. Then you press the center button in and it can be pulled out. I dunno, I think that nut on a thin flap of a metal bracket is asking to be destroyed if you poke around in there with any force.
Cool.
Srinath.

Offline NY Andrew

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serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2020, 11:38:22 am »
You can use a push in plug they use on automotive trim. Then you press the center button in and it can be pulled out. I dunno, I think that nut on a thin flap of a metal bracket is asking to be destroyed if you poke around in there with any force.
Cool.
Srinath.
Thisíll sound weird.. but Iíll tell ya thatís the hardest nut Iíve ever tried to torque free....literally tried to break the thing off with open and closed wrench and couldnít. It ainít going nowhere. They used some super weld on it. Iíd be shocked if it broke free as Iím tapping it. But it does seem like youíre original idea of a small bolt through the hole may end up being how this saga ends if all else fails. Iíll just have to make sure itís an extent sturdy steel bolt since Iíd be going down in size to potentially M4 from M8...

In a perfect world would be cool to have someone break off the nut and weld on a new one. But to accomplish that youíd have to take every single wire in that vicinity out which is a nightmare in and of itself. And even then it would almost be impossible to weld the underside of the nut.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 11:45:58 am by NY Andrew »
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Offline lunkhead

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Re: serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2020, 12:34:03 pm »
A Helicoil is easiest and strongest. It springs out into the threads to hold in place. A Time-sert is softer so the tool can expand it to keep it in place. It also means more material gets removed from the nut so it'll be weaker.
C-SPƎC

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Offline NY Andrew

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serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2020, 01:04:33 pm »
A Helicoil is easiest and strongest. It springs out into the threads to hold in place. A Time-sert is softer so the tool can expand it to keep it in place. It also means more material gets removed from the nut so it'll be weaker.
When you say time-sert you mean like the ez-lock?

And more material gets removed for the time-sert/ez-lock than Helicoil? Feel like theyíd both remove almost the same amount material. Unless thatís what you said is both routes remove material thus compromising the initial integrity.

In reality I guess so long as the nut doesnít split/crack then even if it snaps off the weld itíll still keep the seat held together wonít have to worry about it flying off, but still may be a massive PITA to remove the bolt.
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Offline strummer

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Re: serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2020, 01:20:53 pm »
The helicoil in order to work has to be tapped with its own tap ( if this makes sense in English...)
After you will insert the helicoil insert and snap the very end of it.
The insert will go inside the new thread you have made and will became the M8 pitch...
If it was me I would go straight to M10 standard pitch  ( or whatever side you can find the bolt/screw).
It looks to me much cheaper to tap it straight M10 instead of buying Helicoil tap,insert and it's appropriate tool for the insert...
You might know someone to borrow just the M 10 from or just buy a new one...
All you have to know is whatever size you will go with the rule is :
Diameter minus pitch and you will have the correct diameter for the drill bit.
M10 ◊1,5mm = 8,5mm drill bit
At least it works like this in Italy ;D
Sorry for the long post.
Hope my English is clear enough to help you out...
Peace & Anarchy

Offline lunkhead

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Re: serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2020, 02:00:25 pm »
Time-sert and EZ-Lok are about the same just different quality. A Time-sert might be necessary for some repairs like deep spark plug holes where breaking off the nub at the far end of a helicoil isn't practical but for most jobs, a Helicoil is fine. If you decide to tap for and use a 10◊1.50 bolt, there's no going back to a 8◊1.25.
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Offline srinath

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Re: serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2020, 04:06:38 pm »
That doesn't surprise me 1 bit.

Its a work hardended steel nut tig welded onto a paper thin ear of steel which has been welded between the 2 frame tubes and you dont have flat square or flush access. You have no idea how easy it is to break off varying tap tools and drill bits and everything else in the process of trying to get it tapped. I know cos I have several like this I have managed to mangle up in my past life.

Inserts and helicoils etc etc are all for putting in aluminum - and if you had unfettered access to a simple mild steel or cast iron like a cyl head - maybe - just maybe then. This bugger isn't likely to work like that and the consequences of screwing up are getting worse by each busted off tool.

If that brass thread insert with a knurled outside is available, you may be able to install it by using a long bolt and a nut on the back side of this nut because its designed to deform the softer brass and mate it to the chewed up threads in the steel nut which will easily cut its pattern in the brass outside and hence never let it go.
Else put a plastic push plug in from autoparts store and call it a day and go for a ride. That's actually what I'd do.

Cool.
Srinath.

Offline lunkhead

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Re: serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2020, 05:20:38 pm »
Srinath, what makes you think Helicoils are not good for steel repair? They're used to stengthen aluminum threads but can repair anything that's softer than hardened tool steel. The cheap mild steel the OP is trying to repair doesn't contain enough hardening agent of any kind to make it anywhere near as hard as even unhardened tool steel. There are many alloys that'll harden and if this was one of them, the bolt would've seized or broke and not simply strip out.
C-SPƎC

Offline NY Andrew

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Re: serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2020, 06:15:24 pm »
Finally had a minute to rethink my approach with a clean mind.

Used an old school trick to clean the threads and check out the results!!!!

A fresh M8 bolt I had lying around feels like it skips some of the first threads, then it goes in and it wobbles some, then it gets ďokayĒ tight. So I think I revived the OEM threads!!! At least enough to where it shouldnít fly out around a corner and I can use some temp loctite as well. Just need to get a LONG new M8 bolt with some washers/nut to space it out some and I think Iím good! Will update upon results. I was getting worried about the Helicoil not working so I messed around and produced these results.



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Offline lunkhead

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Re: serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2020, 06:41:06 pm »
If it's staying together with that stripped bolt then get yourself a thread chaser and a new bolt of the correct size and it should be good. Pick up a longer bolt and nut as you plan also just in case but the thread chaser should do the trick. Just use plenty of oil on it.
C-SPƎC

Offline NY Andrew

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serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2020, 07:11:40 pm »
If it's staying together with that stripped bolt then get yourself a thread chaser and a new bolt of the correct size and it should be good. Pick up a longer bolt and nut as you plan also just in case but the thread chaser should do the trick. Just use plenty of oil on it.
Stripped split OEM bolt and a new M8 bolt both fit in the same.

Pardon my ignorance, but ďthread chaserĒ as in Helicoil or ez-lock/time-sert?

Not a bad idea to shove a new good thread in over this mashed up thread. For example since this is M8 hole, throw a M6 Helicoil spring in (since it has threads M8 Helicoil wonít work)?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 07:21:23 pm by NY Andrew »
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Offline DrM

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Re: serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2020, 08:25:55 pm »
The bolt is massive in comparison to the loads your body imposes upon it from the rider seat.  The main object is that you tighten it sufficiently to keep the bolt from loosening -- so it won't fall off and let your seat move around.  If you have an Advance Auto Parts store near you, they loan tools for free (you do have to make a deposit on the tools borrowed, but they refund the deposit when you return the tool), and might have a tap and die set, which you can also use as a thread chaser, if you trying to stay the same size bolt.   

Offline NY Andrew

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Re: serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2020, 09:12:44 pm »
You know all these years I never knew auto zone does that. Although it is nice to have my own stuff ready to go when I need it.

I just donít believe Iím following what you guys are saying by ďthread chaserĒ. I essentially created a thread chaser when I split that OEM bolt and it did clean out the grooves of the nut threads. Then throwing in new M8 fit, initially wobbly, then sturdy at the end threads.


So now Iím thinking I DONíT need my Helicoil kit at all.

I feel like you guys are alluding to tap & die kit to ďthread chaseĒ and Iíve essentially done exactly that and feel confident with the results from my homemade thread-chaser.


Just trying to figure out the final step for tomorrowís execution.

-Leave it as is and throw in longer M8 bolt with some blue loctite which at least I know the final threads catch well?
-Since OEM bolt essentially created/cleaned the OEM threads, just use this custom split thread-chaser bolt and call it a day.
-Since I have intact OEM threads, could potentially throw in Helicoil to create new smooth threads and downsize the bolt accordingly.
-Get a time-sert/ez-lock kit to M10 the OEM M8 hole. Which I would think the Helicoil will accomplish exactly this, but this may be easier/cleaner.



Again, just wanna say thanks for everyoneís assistance! Thatís whatís great about these forums is so many people are hands on folk!
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Offline lunkhead

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Re: serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2020, 09:14:32 pm »
Your homemade thread chaser looks mangled because it's not hard enough to hold it's shape and maintain a sharp edge. If you made it out of a high grade bolt, it would work great.

https://www.amazon.com/Lang-Metric-Thread-Restorer-LNG-2588/dp/B00270NQOS

« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 09:24:54 pm by lunkhead »
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Offline NY Andrew

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serious problem....stripped seat...
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2020, 09:18:08 pm »
https://www.amazon.com/Lang-Metric-Thread-Restorer-LNG-2588/dp/B00270NQOS


GOTCHA.

Hereís both my kits, so they have that. So I should be good then. Just M8 thread chase with the tool and should be straight then? Sorry if Iím coming off slow, just hesitant to ruin the new threads I just made want to make sure Iím understanding all this correctly before game day tomorrow.

Then again thinkin I can just throw M8 Helicoil in since I have the threads ugh just trying to avoid drilling out the hole since I made it sorta work now.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 09:30:10 pm by NY Andrew »
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