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Author Topic: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller  (Read 1327 times)

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Offline Starkman

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Re: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2020, 01:44:08 pm »
Wow, thanks very much, all! Very good information.

And yes, there is a retired "motorman" police officer, Jerry Palladino, who offers training similar to what motorcycle police offers go through. I have the DVD (Ride Like A Pro), and in view of the techniques used, there has to be the ability to up the revs to at least double idle speed, but no more. Simply feathering the clutch (the friction zone) won't be enough to do the maneuvers required at slow speeds (between 5-10 mph). There are some maneuvers you can do but not all that you need to do. (By the way, all motorcycles have to use the same techniques to do slow maneuvering; there has to be the ability to up those rpms just enough to allow using the rear brake at the same time while in the friction zone.)

Well, as soon as I can get out and ride again, I'm going to spend a bit more time with the throttle, and if I can I'll try to find another Bolt to ride. Otherwise, I don't notice any backfire, which is good, and the rest of the bike's responsiveness and all is great, so no problem there.

Thanks very much!
I test rode a Harley 1200 Sportster, but then I test rode the Bolt R Spec. Sold!

2015 Bolt R Spec, stock

Offline bedheadjulian

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Re: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2020, 03:28:54 pm »


[/quote In any case I am with srinath in that I want that massive engine braking working for me, even if it is noisy, which you might lose with Ivan's flash.

I've gotten the flash and engine brake still works fine. It's not like Ivan's programming eliminates it , he just corrected the abrupt fuel-cut on decel.
 And although some of the newer members may not have been around long enough to remember the first few years of discussion regarding flash vs fuel controller I think you'll find the topic easily using the search function and see that most members here who understand the difference will recommend a flash over a piggy-back system, hands down. It's just a question of budget.
But hey, that's just my opinion, right. LOL
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 03:31:14 pm by bedheadjulian »

Offline bedheadjulian

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Re: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2020, 03:57:26 pm »
And for those of us that were having,  or still have,  trouble with the "tight" or jerky throttle on the Bolt ( and I agree with Starkman here, it is not a smooth transition on this bike at all), there's a couple of little tricks that help a lot. Firstly, try slightly tightening the grip on your left hand when riding slower. This allows you to take your weight off the throttle hand and modulate a bit more. Secondly, focus your weight onto the seat and footpegs and hold your upper body up with your abdominal muscles. This should further reduce how much you "hang" on the handlebars. You should almost feel like your arms and hands are lighter and barely have to hold onto the grips. You'll be surprised at the difference these small adjustments make.
 8)

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Offline lunkhead

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Re: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2020, 09:39:42 pm »
Quote from: Starkman
Otherwise, I don't notice any backfire, which is good, and the rest of the bike's responsiveness and all is great, so no problem there.

The "backfire" he's referring to is the popping you get from the exhaust (afterfire) and not the literal backfire that spits back out the intake. Anyway, you'll only hear it with a louder exhaust under deceleration even though it happens in the stock exhaust. You just don't hear it wih a quiet muffler.
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Offline srinath

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Re: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2020, 09:44:56 pm »
Backfiring on shut throttle isn't a sign of lean or anything really.
Its basically a situation where you're feeding 3 or 4000 or more rpm worth of engine revs with 1000 rpm worth of air and gas. It works fine at 1000 but those tiny fuel passages will never send in enough gas to support 3000. It would send in enough air but not enough gas.

Cool.
Srinath.

Offline lunkhead

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Offline lunkhead

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Re: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2020, 11:14:06 pm »
Srinath, your SV1000 was TBI so those intake manifolds would get wet after after a bit of acceleration and help to richen the mix during deceleration. TBI wasn't any better than carbs in that respect.
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Offline srinath

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Re: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2020, 11:20:53 pm »
Srinath, your SV1000 was TBI so those intake manifolds would get wet after after a bit of acceleration and help to richen the mix during deceleration. TBI wasn't any better than carbs in that respect.


I thought its lack of engine braking was due to slipper clutch. But good to know. I know carbs, no clue about FI. BTW many of the carbed bikes I have had even when perfectly jetted (and verified with O2 sensor in the exhaust) would back fire when throttle is shut.

Cool.
Srinath.

Offline lunkhead

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Re: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2020, 12:11:26 am »
Hard to tell when a slipper kicks in.

Next time I take the Bolt out, I'll use the kill switch during deceleration to see how much more engine braking the fuel cut gives over the flash.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 12:27:59 am by lunkhead »
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Offline Starkman

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Re: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2020, 12:40:35 am »
Lunkhead,

Okay, the video you posted...I am SO not mechanically inclined, but that video rocked! Good video. Thanks. As to the backfire, yeah, I knew the difference. I just didn't think I was having any at all because I can't hear it. (I understand Ivan's flash takes care of that, too.)

bedheadjulian,

Yeah, I definitely use my body weight and placement to keep my hands very easy on the handlebars; however, I'll try the left-hand trick you noted. Thanks!.

Now, entertainment for all of you, and why the throttle control at the lower rpms is so important (which is hard to get on my Bolt), here's one of a hundred different videos Jerry Palladino has on his YouTube site, Ride Like A Pro Jerry Palladino. This will give you just one of many examples of what I'm learning going through his DVD (though I've yet to get out and work it...damned DMV and other things!). Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNJoCqFJSYI

I test rode a Harley 1200 Sportster, but then I test rode the Bolt R Spec. Sold!

2015 Bolt R Spec, stock

Offline lunkhead

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Re: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2020, 01:49:54 am »
Quote from: srinath
BTW many of the carbed bikes I have had even when perfectly jetted (and verified with O2 sensor in the exhaust) would back fire when throttle is shut.

You can't control that residual fuel on the inlet walls that eventually up in the exhaust. The air added directly to the exhaust ports thru reeds was to force that fuel to burn immediately after it leaves the combustion chamber. The popping also gets suppressed because it can't accumulate and pop further down the pipe.
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Offline lunkhead

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Re: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2020, 02:43:49 am »
Quote from: Starkman
Okay, the video you posted...I am SO not mechanically inclined, but that video rocked! Good video. Thanks. As to the backfire, yeah, I knew the difference. I just didn't think I was having any at all because I can't hear it. (I understand Ivan's flash takes care of that, too.)

The popping isn't harmful at all and saves gas. It's just that some people don't like the sound. With my Bassani, the flash got rid of the popping and gave it more of a burble. Some Bolters like the popping.
C-SPƎC

Offline VIKEN

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Re: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller
« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2020, 09:22:00 pm »
The Bolt generally has enough power at idle rpm to move the bike around slowly without any throttle nudging (at least mine is.)  All you have to do is to feather the clutch so it engages gently.  In fact, if you feather both the clutch and the throttle simultaneously, you have a lot of control at slow speeds.  I think there is a police officer motorcycle trainer on YouTube who discussed this issue.

This has been the way I've been riding plus trail braking/rear brake use, not only for the Bolt but pretty much any street bikes I've ridden. Complete control for slow maneuvers on any kind of street bikes, be it carb'd or FI, custom built bikes or factory stock.

Offline HairyBiker777

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Re: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2020, 01:56:34 am »
I normally just trail the back brake round slow corners but after reading this thread I tried feathering the clutch at the same time. I picked a ride where I have to go steep uphill on some tight hairpins that have a 5km/h advisory. I always screw it up on at least one of them, but not this time. 

Offline DrM

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Re: Deciding between an Ivan Flash or Power Commander 5 fuel controller
« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2020, 08:47:28 am »
The Bolt generally has enough power at idle rpm to move the bike around slowly without any throttle nudging (at least mine is.)  All you have to do is to feather the clutch so it engages gently.  In fact, if you feather both the clutch and the throttle simultaneously, you have a lot of control at slow speeds.  I think there is a police officer motorcycle trainer on YouTube who discussed this issue.

This has been the way I've been riding plus trail braking/rear brake use, not only for the Bolt but pretty much any street bikes I've ridden. Complete control for slow maneuvers on any kind of street bikes, be it carb'd or FI, custom built bikes or factory stock.
The other thing I would mention is countersteering, which the police instructor, Jerry Palidino, discusses in his video:  Below 15 mph, you have to turn the handlebars in the direction you want to go, and you also have to keep your body straight-up to maintain control.  But above 15 mph the gyroscopic effect of the wheels turning takes over and you have to countersteer to get quicker, more effective steering -- push left to go left (and push right to go right,) and you now can keep your body straight with the bike (in line with the bike.)  You can always tell whether someone countersteers by the way they hold their body during turns.

The one thing cruiser bikes have a problem with is riders tend to be hanging on to the handlebars (ape hanging), so pushing to countersteer becomes harder to do unless you straighten up your body to get your weight off the handgrips.  And -- you can also pull on the opposite side of the handlebars to countersteer.