Welcome to the Yamaha Star Bolt Motorcycle Forum

Why join our motorcycle community?

  • Membership is free and easy
  • Get technical support and information for your Yamaha Star Bolt motorcycle or search for information before buying
  • Use the member map to find riders near you
  • Participate in our monthly virtual bike show (or at least vote)
  • Get rid of these annoying boxes asking you to register  ;D

More importantly, make new friends!!

Author Topic: 2 quick oil questions  (Read 1382 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NY Andrew

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
2 quick oil questions
« on: June 25, 2020, 08:54:38 pm »
Approaching first month/600 mi service.

Do you guys do the actual 4.23 qts of oil? Or just do 4 qts?

Iíve read on here it seems most guys seem to be doing just 4 because the engine holds a lot still and if doing the 4.23 then itís ended up being too much oil and caused some issues.



Also as far as oil change duration goes. Iíll probably do it once a year regardless of mileage. But letís just say it sits 4 months of winter, do you guys think I should do yearly July oil change or would it be best to get on a spring oil change schedule to replace the oil thatís been sitting for 4 months in the bike? I feel like thereís no difference either way as the real issue would be all the oil draining in to the pan and that initial startup would cause metal in metal contact (might be best to just start it up every couple weeks for 20 minute idle).


2018 Yamaha Bolt-R

Online asarms87

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
Re: 2 quick oil questions
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2020, 11:47:55 pm »
I used all of this (a little more than 4 quarts). I have not had any issues.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IKCY9RK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

As for the interval, time is always one of the factors to oil changes. The manual suggests every 4000 miles, or every 6 months. If possible I would run the bike every couple weeks year round, for a myriad of other preventable maintenance reasons as well.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 11:52:23 pm by asarms87 »

Offline DrM

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
Re: 2 quick oil questions
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2020, 05:11:36 am »
I fill mine up to the full mark on the dipstick.  If you use full synthetic, it stays intact on the engine for a long while (months) so no need to change full synthetic oil because of time.  Personally I use Mobil 1 20W50 V-twin (full synthetic) and Yamaha 15W50 full synthetic.  The only issue you have to manage for lengthy downtime or storage is the battery -- you need to hook it up to a good battery tender -- one that adjusts the charging voltage automatically.  The other thing that is probably wise is to raise the tires off the floor with a good lift, however, I don't do this as our winters in central Texas are fairly mild, and there are always some riding days.   

  • Advertisement

Online Crilly Wizard

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: 2 quick oil questions
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2020, 07:18:25 am »
My manual states change every 6000 miles.
Petrol should really have stabiliser added if it is going to sit any length of time, or drained properly.
Oil can sit in odd engine pockets, so fill to correct level with dip rather than a set amount.

Offline lunkhead

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
Re: 2 quick oil questions
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2020, 10:15:07 am »
DrM, mixing two different viscosities of synthetic oil defeats the purpose of a synthetic which is to keep all the molecules the same size and share the load evenly. It's like mixing ball sizes in ball bearing. The larger molecules do all the work and since there are less of them, they'll wear faster. The smaller molecules of the oils mix will help with flow but their lubricating properties are mostly wasted.

https://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/oil_viscosity_explained.htm#_Toc240461892
C-SPƎC

Offline DrM

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
Re: 2 quick oil questions
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2020, 12:15:47 pm »
DrM, mixing two different viscosities of synthetic oil defeats the purpose of a synthetic which is to keep all the molecules the same size and share the load evenly. It's like mixing ball sizes in ball bearing. The larger molecules do all the work and since there are less of them, they'll wear faster. The smaller molecules of the oils mix will help with flow but their lubricating properties are mostly wasted.

https://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/oil_viscosity_explained.htm#_Toc240461892

Nonsense -- the difference between 20W50 and 15W50 is minuscule.  And oil gaps vary throughout the engine and transmission.

Offline lunkhead

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
Re: 2 quick oil questions
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2020, 02:05:56 pm »
Synthetic oil is more complicated than mineral oil that simply starts with a base stock and adds crap to increase it's VI. A good synthetic uses engineered molecules instead. By mixing them, you change the friction between the molecules regardless of bearing surface clearance. It's not so much that the molecules are different size to start with, but mixing brands that have different additives specific to it's blend is not going to have improved results. The cheaper oil might have more VI improvers and other crap than the higher quality one. You're not hurting anything because it's still oil but the benefits of both or either may be less than you think.

If we were talking about mixing mineral oils, molecule size (not design) would be the only concern since the molecules aren't modified. You'd only be changing the additive amount, not the actual oil molecule. Of course, it's also best to only mix conventional oils with the same base stock (basically, the first number in the VI rating).
C-SPƎC

Offline DrM

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
Re: 2 quick oil questions
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2020, 02:34:17 pm »
Synthetic oil is more complicated than mineral oil that simply starts with a base stock and adds crap to increase it's VI. A good synthetic uses engineered molecules instead. By mixing them, you change the friction between the molecules regardless of bearing surface clearance. It's not so much that the molecules are different size to start with, but mixing brands that have different additives specific to it's blend is not going to have improved results. The cheaper oil might have more VI improvers and other crap than the higher quality one. You're not hurting anything because it's still oil but the benefits of both or either may be less than you think.

If we were talking about mixing mineral oils, molecule size (not design) would be the only concern since the molecules aren't modified. You'd only be changing the additive amount, not the actual oil molecule. Of course, it's also best to only mix conventional oils with the same base stock (basically, the first number in the VI rating).
Come back and talk when you get your degree in Chemical Engineering. 

Offline lunkhead

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
Re: 2 quick oil questions
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2020, 03:40:50 pm »
DrM, that's more of a topic for discussion on a different forum anyway.

Back on topic, the frequency of oil changes, like anything that degrades over time, depends on ambient conditions. Follow Yamaha's recommendation under the harshest conditions but use common sense for anything less. A bike left out in the rain where there's heavy air pollution and frequent pressure changes will need more maintenance including spark plug changes and bolts lubed (at least initially) or they risk getting stuck. The spark plug threads aren't supposed to be lubed so replacement is recommended. Other things like axles or anything you might want to remove later need lubed.
C-SPƎC

Offline dogbrained

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: 2 quick oil questions
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2020, 09:33:36 am »
 Lunkhead,
Your restraint is admirable.

Offline lunkhead

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
Re: 2 quick oil questions
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2020, 05:21:36 pm »
Look before you leap.  ;)
C-SPƎC

Offline lunkhead

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
Re: 2 quick oil questions
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2020, 12:54:08 pm »
Not to start a war or anything, but something else to avoid is suggestive labeling. Many people see V-Twin as as meaning best for "any" V-Twin. Those oils are usually high viscosity oils with extra EP additives not needed for our plain bearing cranks. It would be an understatement to say Harley motors have different needs than our jap bikes. Our Bolts need a constant supply of faster flowing, pressurized oil to create a hydrodynamic bearing whereas a Harley's roller bearings just need a little thick oil thrown in there to keep it cool and it has to hold up under the significantly higher pressures between the rollers and races. You won't have the same problems associated with a thick oil in winter with a roller bearing crank that you will with a plain bearing. On the other hand, a thin oil in a roller bearing crank won't hold up under the higher mechanical pressures but in a plain bearing you get faster flow to those more vunerable parts. Another big difference is our Bolts aren't dry sump like Harleys which makes thicker, clingier oils even less desirable for our motors but better for Harleys. Especially, when considering steel cylinders and flat tappets.

Any air-cooled motor can run too hot or cold but it typically won't run too hot in winter or too cold in summer. The Bolt has a few features that keep the heat down and it's an understressed, low output motor so there's no reason to worry about problems due to oil or cooling system failure. Maybe after 100,000 miles of running conventional oils, you might want to consider switching to a higher viscosity to take up the wear but the factory clearances are setup to work with the thinnest oil reccommended. Typically, under average conditions, 10w should be used for fresh bearings and higher viscosities reserved for when the wear. Unlike a plain bearing, a worn roller bearing can't be "fixed" in the same way.

That said, you won't have a problem running any oil available today in the Bolt since all the old clssificatons have been replaced but with many current sportbikes, you will have problem not following the manual  precisely.
C-SPƎC

Offline Sdaniels

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
Re: 2 quick oil questions
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2020, 06:40:57 pm »
DrM, mixing two different viscosities of synthetic oil defeats the purpose of a synthetic which is to keep all the molecules the same size and share the load evenly. It's like mixing ball sizes in ball bearing. The larger molecules do all the work and since there are less of them, they'll wear faster. The smaller molecules of the oils mix will help with flow but their lubricating properties are mostly wasted.

https://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/oil_viscosity_explained.htm#_Toc240461892

Nonsense -- the difference between 20W50 and 15W50 is minuscule.  And oil gaps vary throughout the engine and transmission.

If there isn't much difference, what does it accomplish to mix them?
2015 C-spec

Offline DrM

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
Re: 2 quick oil questions
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2020, 11:19:31 pm »
DrM, mixing two different viscosities of synthetic oil defeats the purpose of a synthetic which is to keep all the molecules the same size and share the load evenly. It's like mixing ball sizes in ball bearing. The larger molecules do all the work and since there are less of them, they'll wear faster. The smaller molecules of the oils mix will help with flow but their lubricating properties are mostly wasted.

https://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/oil_viscosity_explained.htm#_Toc240461892

Nonsense -- the difference between 20W50 and 15W50 is minuscule.  And oil gaps vary throughout the engine and transmission.

If there isn't much difference, what does it accomplish to mix them?
To my knowledge there is no prohibition to do it, so I don't need a reason, nor do I need to justify it to anyone.

Offline Sdaniels

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
Re: 2 quick oil questions
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2020, 08:04:46 am »
Okay DrM, when you cop an attitude after criticizing someone without a degree, all you do is come across as an ass.  You may have a superior intellect but nobody is going to care.
2015 C-spec