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Author Topic: Tires / rims questions  (Read 570 times)

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Offline Leiurus

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Tires / rims questions
« on: January 10, 2017, 08:50:53 AM »
I really dig the tall, vintage tires look, Avon MKII or Firestone Deluxe Champion style.
As far as I know, all these vintage tires, even the modern ones mimicking the old school design, like the Bridgestone Accolade for instance, are tube type.
The standard Bolt 2017 comes with spoked wheels but I'm gonna get the R-Spec and it comes with the standard tubeless, cast rims.
I've talked to Yamaha and the best they propose is to simply buy the spoked wheels, at 800+ a pop that's a decent amount of money to drop to basically downgrade the bike (cast wheels are usually more expensive than spoked ones).
I see quite a few pics around of Bolts or other sportsters with vintage tires mounted on the stock rims.
AFAIK, fitting tube type tires on a tubeless rim is a big no-no. Are these pics just for the show or is there a way to safely fit these tires on the stock rims? I've read that it's doable if you install a rim lock but still not recommended (besides ruining the tubeless rims).

Does anyone have an idea?


Vae Victis

Offline Leiurus

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Re: Tires / rims questions
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2017, 09:42:40 PM »
Alright, I guess I should have put more efforts in my search, it seems that it is fine to fit a tube tire on a mag wheel and doesn't require  a rim lock. Apologies if I've asked for the obvious, I'm not familiar with tubeless rims.
Vae Victis

Offline rigarue

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Re: Tires / rims questions
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2017, 10:52:48 PM »
If you like a vintage tire look into a shinko 240 and shinko 270 both good looking tires made to look like belted tires but are radials

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Offline Leiurus

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Re: Tires / rims questions
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2017, 11:07:40 PM »
If you like a vintage tire look into a shinko 240 and shinko 270 both good looking tires made to look like belted tires but are radials

Yes, I know these guys, sweet looking tires indeed. They don't seem to come in any other size than 16 though and I'd like to have the same brand and model of tires for both front and rear wheels.
Vae Victis

Offline joko

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Re: Tires / rims questions
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2017, 11:10:01 PM »
Man I'm glad you posted this because I've always thought those tires were only meant for use with tubes.  Thanks man, now I know what I'll be getting for my next set.

Offline Leiurus

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Re: Tires / rims questions
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2017, 12:18:08 AM »
Man I'm glad you posted this because I've always thought those tires were only meant for use with tubes.  Thanks man, now I know what I'll be getting for my next set.

Wait a second, these tires DO need a tube.
Most of the tube/tubeless tires discussions revolve around the following topics:

- can I install a tubeless tire with a tube inside? Answer: yes, not ideal because the tube will create frictions and put the tire under higher temperature than what it has been designed for but it's usually safe
- can I install a tube tire without a tube?: Answer: no, although quite a few people do it. Tube and tubeless tires beads are not designed identically and plain and simple it is not safe to install a tube type tire without a tube
- can I install a tubeless tire on a tube type rim? Answer: not really. There are some method to seal the spokes hole to make the rim air tight, but IMO it's asking for trouble, not only do I find the principle lousy but the rims are not designed for tubeless tires in the first place (tubeless wheels have rims on each side of the bed to hold the tire bead in place, their design is slightly different from tube type wheels)

My question was: can I install a tube type tire (with a tube of course) in a tubeless wheel. It seems that it is possible. I've read a couple of posts from people saying that a tube tire on a tubeless rim might spin and that a rim lock should be installed (ruining the air tightness of the wheel if set with a tubeless tire) but it doesn't seem to be necessary and tube type tires are commonly installed (with a tube) on mag wheels without particular issues.

Of course you will also see quite a few people stating that they have installed their tube type tires on their mag wheel without a tube but that sounds just plain wrong to me, especially for vintage tires that are so tall.

To be honest, my bike is a classic one and I have zero experience with tubeless wheels, I actually thought that these wheels had the valves cast, making the installation of a tube impossible without drilling them to allow for the tube valve . Yes, I'm that noob when it comes to modern bikes.
Turns out that it is not the case and that the valves can simply be removed from the mag wheels, allowing for the tube valve installation.

All this sounds very logical but it actually took me a while to find the info, 95% of the tire/rim convo revolve around the topic listed at the beginning on this post.
Vae Victis

Offline joko

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Re: Tires / rims questions
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2017, 01:06:11 AM »
Oh ok, so tube type tire w/ no tube on a mag/tubeless wheel = no good.

But what rigarue posted about he shinkos is correct right?  Those are radials so they should work on the mag bolt wheels?

Offline Leiurus

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Re: Tires / rims questions
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2017, 02:06:00 AM »
Well, as you can see I'm no tire expert but I don't think that bias / radial had anything to do with rim compatibility, it is just a construction method of the tire itself.
I've dug the subject further and gathered more feedback, mainly from HD forums, the vintage look is popular among HD owners and most modern HD models have mag wheels. The general consensus seem to be that there's no problem fitting them with a tube. Quite a few people fit them without tube, they argue that although the look is vintage the construction is modern and therefore that it is safe to mount them tubeless. I don't buy it, modern material doesn't change anything to the fact that these tires are not designed to be mounted without a tube. I can't help thinking that these guys are posting because they haven't killed themselves yet :D
I don't see the point of fitting a tube tire without a tube. Tubeless tires are more resilient than tube type but it is due to their design, they have ticker walls, are less prone to puncture and if punctured will leak air at a slower rate than a tube type. But installing a tube tire without tube will not magically change its design, the only gain would be saving the tube money and considering how cheap tubes are I don't get it.
Vae Victis

Offline rigarue

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Re: Tires / rims questions
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2017, 12:45:30 PM »
If you like a vintage tire look into a shinko 240 and shinko 270 both good looking tires made to look like belted tires but are radials

Yes, I know these guys, sweet looking tires indeed. They don't seem to come in any other size than 16 though and I'd like to have the same brand and model of tires for both front and rear wheels.
INCORRECT I HAVE THE 240 ON MY BIKE FRONT AND BACK LOOK AT MY PROFILE I HAVE PICS OF EM ON 

Offline Leiurus

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Re: Tires / rims questions
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2017, 11:36:05 PM »
If you like a vintage tire look into a shinko 240 and shinko 270 both good looking tires made to look like belted tires but are radials

Yes, I know these guys, sweet looking tires indeed. They don't seem to come in any other size than 16 though and I'd like to have the same brand and model of tires for both front and rear wheels.
INCORRECT I HAVE THE 240 ON MY BIKE FRONT AND BACK LOOK AT MY PROFILE I HAVE PICS OF EM ON

My bad, Shinko website list both 240 and 270 in size 16 only. I remember your tires though, I checked your thread.
I'm the moment I'm leaning towards the MKII or the Continental K112, in term of look MKII are the winners but the K112 are tubeless so I'm still pondering it.
Vae Victis

Offline bedheadjulian

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Re: Tires / rims questions
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2017, 01:43:19 AM »
The Shinko 270's come in four sizes:
5.00 - 16
4.00 - 18
4.00 - 19
3.00 - 21

https://catalog.zodiac.nl/en/catalog/11-wheels-spokes-hubs-and-tires/wheels-spokes-hubs-and-tires/shinko-tires/shinko-e270-super-classic-tires/

You should be able to find them locally if you type in the size 4.00 - 19  and 5.00 - 16 (fits the Bolt standard size)

The 240's come in two sizes (but are oddly not both tubeless???) :

https://catalog.zodiac.nl/en/catalog/11-wheels-spokes-hubs-and-tires/wheels-spokes-hubs-and-tires/shinko-tires/shinko-e240-classic-tires/

« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 01:49:19 AM by bedheadjulian »